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Inactive A&P Question

Posted by AskBob on 08.16.12 at 07:43 AM

The following was submitted by email from Michael:

Will my A&P certificate expire if I have not worked as a mechanic for a very long time? What should I do if I want to go back to working as an A&P mechanic again?

Thank you for your feedback.

 

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Your rating: None
Anonymous (not verified) on Thu, 08/16/2012 - 08:04

If you have a paper certificate, it has to be replaced by March 31, 2013 or it is no longer valid. If you wanted to get your IA, you have to be actively engaged as a mechanic for 2 years with a fixed base of operation.

The FAR state:

65.83 Recent experience requirements.
A certificated mechanic may not exercise the privileges of his certificate and rating unless, within the preceding 24 months—

(a) The Administrator has found that he is able to do that work; or

(b) He has, for at least 6 months—

(1) Served as a mechanic under his certificate and rating;

(2) Technically supervised other mechanics;

(3) Supervised, in an executive capacity, the maintenance or alteration of aircraft; or

(4) Been engaged in any combination of paragraph (b) (1), (2), or (3) of this section.

AskBob on Thu, 08/16/2012 - 08:17

If you have not performed 6 months as an A&P in the prior 2 years you must be supervised by someone qualified for the task. You should document this in your personal logbook to document performance being you are not signing off the work till you get your 6 months in again.

bob.pasch on Fri, 08/17/2012 - 07:01

Here's another example of anonymous experts whose answer is WRONG! The man asked "Will my A&P certificate expire if I have not worked as a mechanic for a very long time?" Mr. anonymous tells him about a paper certificate, IA and currency requirements. Nice things you should know but it doesn't answer his question.

The question is 'Will my A&P certificate expire if I have not worked as a mechanic for a very long time?' and the answer is no. An A&P certificate is valid until it's suspended or revoked. Bob's answer below is accurate...

__________________

May you always have a tail wind and keep your scarf out of your rudder...

Anonymous (not verified) on Fri, 08/17/2012 - 11:26

I apologize for not answering the question clearly.

"Will my A&P certificate expire if I have not worked as a mechanic for a very long time?"

No. Note if you have a paper certificate you will not be able to excersize your privelages after March 31, 2013.

"What should I do if I want to go back to working as an A&P mechanic again?"

Work with another mechanic until you feel comfortable working on your own and ensure you have your currency. See FAR part 65.

Bob, I'm no expert but I am human.

Anonymous (not verified) on Sat, 08/18/2012 - 07:31

While Bob's answer is accurate, it is merely his interpretation.
Excepting and accident/incident involving incompetence by a mechanic, the administrator is NOT going to pursue punitive action against a mechanic for non-compliance with recent experience requirements described in 65.83 (b), (1-4).

Both Bob's are ignoring paragraph (a) which the Administrator has consistently applied in ALL instances excepting those involving incompetence resulting in an accident/incident.

Postulate all you like, however you cannot find any Administrative action by the FAA Administrator to the contrary.

Having said that, I do recommend maintaining currency via Bob's suggested method.

bob.pasch on Mon, 08/20/2012 - 19:19

Being human notwithstanding, both Bobs are giving a direct answer to a direct question. Everything else is anonymous psychobabble! There's enough spin here to dry a large load of clothes. Sir, are you a politician?

__________________

May you always have a tail wind and keep your scarf out of your rudder...

Anonymous (not verified) on Tue, 08/21/2012 - 10:46

I just received my FAA letter stating when my paper A&P will be expired. The FAA stated in this letter that after that date my paper A&P, as a means identification is no good, and I cannot sign anything off requiring a A&P, until I get my plastic A&P card. It's not officially revoked or suspended by the FAA.

AskBob on Wed, 08/22/2012 - 10:43

That is true, After March 31 2013 a paper A&P certificate can not be used. This is different than the inactivity question as it will expire active or not. More details can be found on this post
http://www.askbob.aero/content/paper-ap-certificates-expire

Yet another Bob (not verified) on Fri, 02/22/2013 - 08:56

One thing to consider, when your new plastic license arrives, the issue date will be the date it was printed, not your original date. When going to the FAA for your IA, it would behoove you to take along your paper license to prove length of experience. Learned that the hard way.

Justin L Hacker Robinson (not verified) on Thu, 12/12/2013 - 10:20

Hello Bob,
I graduated in 2010 from Aviation Insritute of maintenance received my sign offs and an associates in applied sciences, however never became certified as an a&p.I am currently employed at Advance Aero inc, I've been employed for a little over a year. My question is am I still eligible to become certified or am I going to have to get sign off's again? Thank you for your time.

Stacheair1 on Fri, 12/13/2013 - 22:12

The answer is YES you can still obtain your A&P. The FAA form 8610-2 once signed by an FAA inspector is good until you take your first written test. The date you take the written test is when the 2-year clock starts to finish the entire process.

Say if you were to lose your 8610-2 forms, as long as you have your certificate from AIM you can always get a new 8610-2 signed to test.

Bottom line is study take the written tests then turn around say within a week of two and take the oral and practical or soon as possible. The oral questions are very close to the writtenl questions so while it is fresh in your head take the oral and practical with a DME.

So take your 8610-2 to any FAA written test center make an appointment and take all three written tests.

I am a DME for AIM at the Oakland center in California and a retired FAA field inspector from the Oakland FSDO. Any questions just contact me and I will assist you through the process.

Good Luck on testing.

Stacheair1 on Fri, 12/13/2013 - 22:10

Just to clear up a little miss understanding in the mechanic world about the issue date on your mechanic-rating card. As stated the date is ONLY the date the card was issued NOT you original certification date.

Any FAA employee in Flight Standard has access to a database and can look up any airman and find the date of their original issuance so keeping old paper copy is NOT required. You can also write to Airman Records and they will send you FREE of charge a copy of your original certificate to hang on the wall. If you apply for an IA authorization the first thing the inspector will do is check the data base and check it against what the airman brings to the office for the authorization to test.

I happen to have five A&P cards all with different issue dates and one with my pictures that expired after five years. I was part of the picture test program at the FAA. That certificate has been replaced with my latest certificate that does not expire.

Harold (not verified) on Fri, 01/27/2017 - 15:40

Hi. I am currently trying to go back to work as an A&P mechanic for a regional airline. I have not worked in aircraft maintenance since 2005 or so. They are telling me my A&P is not valid/current, and they cannot hire me unless I get current. It almost looks like I have to work in GA for 6 months, under supervision of an A&P, but I always thought we were working under the airline's certificate rather our own anyway, using our employee number instead of certification #, and when I worked at a major carrier back in the day, base maintenance and overhaul were 100% buyoff by an inspector anyway. How am I supposed to remedy this?

Stache Air (not verified) on Mon, 01/30/2017 - 17:00

The airline may or may not have a repair station to perform return-to-service under a repair station certificate. However, when you work for any airline they require to hold an Airframe or Powerplant or both ratings to perform Return-to Service on their aircraft. The airline may keep a copy of your A&P on file and issue you an employee stamp that is traced back to your A&P rating per their approved manual. Each airline sets its own policy in how they perform Return-to-Service some require you use your A&P rating number others use the issued employee stamp.

The airline is correct about the six month rule under part 65. However, they could have you work under the supervision of other mechanics for 6-months so you can be current, but that is company policy.
Part 65 §65.83 Recent experience requirements.
A certificated mechanic may not exercise the privileges of his certificate and rating unless, within the preceding 24 months—
(a) The Administrator has found that he is able to do that work; or
(b) He has, for at least 6 months—
(1) Served as a mechanic under his certificate and rating;
(2) Technically supervised other mechanics;
(3) Supervised, in an executive capacity, the maintenance or alteration of aircraft; or
(4) Been engaged in any combination of paragraph (b) (1), (2), or (3) of this section.

As you can see you have two options to be current (a) go to your local FSDO and demonstrate to the FAA inspector you are able to perform the work and have them issue you a letter stating so. Or (b) find a job for at least 6-months in the aviation field.

n14ky on Thu, 02/02/2017 - 05:44

If you really want the job NOW, you can always use 65.83(a) to become "current " again. Make an appointment with a FSDO Airworthiness Inspector and ask if he would "observe" you performing maintenance. Once he "finds" you are able to do the work, you are good to go. I suspect he would send you to a DME rather than do it himself, but that would be his call. I believe the DME can make this finding on behalf of the FAA just as an Inspector can.

You didn't say what you were doing since 2005. Is there a chance you could fit 65.83 (b)(2) or (b)(3)? I know that for several years I was Director of Training at an Airline, and that qualified me under (b)(3) for recent experience.

Stache Air (not verified) on Fri, 02/03/2017 - 13:36

As a former ASI and current DME we are not allowed to make the call for part 65 section 65.83 only and ASI can preform this task. It really not a big issue as an ASI I preformed this task and issued the mechanic a letter indicating he met 65.83.

Having said that if mechanic attends IA refresher courses and takes their attendance certificates to show they are still active in learning this will go along way with the ASIs as will any additional on-line training or courses.

However, do nothing in aviation for several years you do lose your sharpness and this is why there is a rule.

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